by Rabbi Aryeh Klapper
Dear Rabbi Klapper,
I go home to my parents for Sukkot. They have an old sukkah with a frame built out of PVC pipes, and they put the sukkah mats directly on the frame. But my boyfriend Pinchas Dovid ben Qalonymos insists that I have to take off the roof, put wooden slats across the frame, and then put the mats back on top of them. That seems silly to me – don’t the slats just become part of the roof, in which case the roof is still resting on the frame? Or if the slats aren’t a valid part of the roof, why are they better than the plastic pipes? But he said he won’t come eat with us unless I correct this. Tell me who is right?
Single On Sukkot
Dear SOS,
A key message of Sukkot is that we owe our housing to Hashem now just as we did in the wilderness of Sinai. That’s one reason that the custom of Ushpizin has meaning even for those not kabbalistically inclined. So you should certainly do anything within practical reason to make potential guests feel comfortable in your sukkah, even if their requirements seem to you beyond halakhic reason. Spouses of course should do this reciprocally, and not treat themselves as guest and their spouse as host.
In this case, your friend’s position has a basis in rishonim, and that basis has expanded to the point that someone could apply it to your case. But he has given it far more weight than is proper. He is insisting on what is at most an unlikely extension of a minority understanding of a minority position, which may also be incoherent. I’ll try to explain briefly.
Nechemiah 8:15 reports that the Jews built their sukkot out of olive, date, and hadas branches, (and perhaps two other species). Talmud Sukkah 36b understands Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehudah as disagreeing whether olive and date branches were used for the roof, or only for the walls. Rabbi Yehudah held that the roof must be made from the Four Species, thus not from olive or date branches, while Rabbi Meir held that even the roof can be made of any species. They agree that the walls can be made of any species.
Mishnah Sukkah 11a reports an apparent consensus position that a sukkah must be made out of things that are “not receptive to tum’ah and grown from the ground”. Amoraim discuss the source of this position on 11b. Rav Chisda cites Nechemiah 8:15, which he understands as defining a sukkah as something made only from this sort of material.
If Mishnah Sukkah 11a follows Rabbi Yehudah, according to whom the verse relates only to the walls, then Rav Chisda must understand that Mishnah to require that sukkah walls be made of things that are “not receptive to tum’ah and grown from the ground”. However, if Mishnah Sukkah 11a follows Rabbi Meir, then Rav Chisda’s interpretation of the verse relates only to the roof, and we have no basis for disqualifying any material for walls.
Yerushalmi Sukkah 1:6 quotes Rabbi Yosa in the name of Rabbi Chama bar Chanina as stating explicitly that the walls of the sukkah may be made of things that are receptive to tum’ah. His evidence is that Shemot 40:3 refers to the entrance curtain serving as skhakh for the Ark, when actually it formed a side wall. “From here (derive) that walls may be called skhakh; From here (derive) that we make walls from things that are receptive to tum’ah”. Since the curtain was receptive to tum’ah, and it is called skhakh,it is valid as a wall for a sukkah (although not as a roof, presumably since we know from Mishnah Sukkah 11a that at least the roof must be made of materials not receptive to tum’ah).
However, Or Zarua (Sukkah 289) cites the Yerushalmi as taking exactly the opposite position: “From here (derive) that walls may be called skhakh; From here (derive) that we make walls (only) from things that are NOT receptive to tum’ah.” Or Zarua learns from the verse that walls may be called skhakh, but does not see the specific material of the curtain as relevant to Sukkot. In other words, he understands the Yerushalmi as making a linguistic observation (gilui milta) rather than a legal interpretation (derashah).
Or Zarua’s position is rejected by just about all subsequent halakhists other than Bayit Chadash (“Bach”). The simple reason for this is that the Bavli never mentions any restrictions on materials for sukkah walls. At least two pieces of direct evidence can also be offered. First, a beraita on Sukkah 37a derives Rabbi Meir’s position from Vayikra 23:42 as follows: “In the Sukkot you must dwell seven days” – Sukkot made of anything (kol dvar)”. Second, Sukkah 23a affirms that both Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehudah allow animals to serve as Sukkah walls (at least as a matter of Biblical law). Animals are generally not considered “grown from the ground”; therefore neither Rabbi Meir nor Rabbi Yehudah uses the verse in Nechemiah as a basis for excluding materials from use in sukkah walls.
It seems reasonable to say as a default that sukkot are constructed by placing roofs on walls. Therefore, if walls can be made of any material, it follows that roofs can rest on any material. This brings us to the text generally seen as the heart of the issue.
Mishnah Sukkah 21b states:
הסומך סוכתו בכרעי {ms. Oxford 366 = לכרעי} המטה – כשרה;
רבי יהודה אומר:
אם אינה יכולה לעמוד בפני עצמה {ms. Munich 95 = מעצמה} – פסולה.
One who supports his sukkah with (alt: leans his sukkah against) the knees of the bed – it is valid.
Rabbi Yehudah says:
If it is unable to stand on its own (alt: of itself) – it is invalid.
Yerushalmi Sukkah reports that Rabbi Immi understood Rabbi Yehuda’s issue to be that the distance from the bedding to the roof was less than the minimum height of a sukkah (10 tefachim). Thus if the Sukkah cannot stand on its own, the bed is considered its floor; if it can stand on its own, the bed is just an object inside it, and the sukkah is valid. However, Rabbi Ba understood the issue to be that
אין מעמידין על גבי דבר טמא
We do not stand (the sukkah) up on something (receptive to becoming) tamei.
It is not clear what Rabbi Ba means by “standing (the sukkah) up”. Regardless, the Yerushalmi rejects his position and sides with Rabbi Immi on the basis of a beraita recording that the people of Jerusalem in fact used to make sukkot by roofing over their beds.
The Bavli cites a dispute between Rabbi Zeira and Rabbi Abba bar Mamal. One of them held that the ground of Rabbi Yehuda’s position was that such a sukkah אין לה קבע = is not established. The other held that the Rabbi Yehuda objected to standing the sukkah up on something receptive to tum’ah. A practical difference between them is if one inserted four metal poles and roofed over them; the sukkah would then be established, but it would still rest on something receptive to tum’ah. Abbayay then comments:
לא שנו אלא סמך,
אבל סיכך על גב המטה – כשרה.
The mishnah was only taught regarding a case where the sukkah is supported by/rests against (the bed)
but if he roofed over the bed – it is valid.
The Talmud explains this to mean that if he roofed over the bed, the sukkah is valid according to either explanation of Rabbi Yehudah’s position. But what is the case of the Mishnah then? Where is the roof of the sukkah, if not over the bed? Recall that in the Yerushalmi, Rabbi Immi thought that the issue was the space between the bedding and the roof!
The only way to validate your friend’s objection to your sukkah, aside from following Or Zarua, would be to
- Rule like Rabbi Yehudah in this Mishnah
- Understand him in accordance with the position that the issue is “standing the sukkah up on something receptive to tum’ah” (even though the Yerushalmi rejects an apparently parallel position)
- (Since the pipes your frame is made of are plastic) understand that position to ban standing the sukkah up on materials that are not “grown from the ground” even if they are also not receptive to tum’ah
- Understand that position to apply only to roof supports and not to walls, since animals can serve as walls, and animals are not grown from the ground. Also because of all the evidence cited above that wall material can be made of anything.
It seems to me that any such validation must also produce positive evidence that roof supports are a recognized halakhic category at least potentially subject to regulation, whether Biblical or Rabbinic. (END PART 1)
In Part 2, I expect to show how this burden of proof can be met, although (in my honest opinion) not in a way that poses an actual halakhic concern.
In the interim, let me also note here two positions about sukkahs that may be helpful to those to whom my opinion matters:
Fabric sukkah walls do not need to be taut. No one holds that “waving” of less than 3 tefachim (minimally 9 inches) has any halakhic significance. So long as the walls remain within 3 tefachim of the ground and reach above 10 tefachim from the ground at all times, the space that is enclosed by the walls at their minimum enclosure remains a valid sukkah even if the center of the walls blow in and out.
Bamboo mats do not need to be manufactured with specific intention to be used for skhakh. Any intended purpose other than to be used as a surface to put things on is generally fine, e.g. as a windowshade or fence, both of which are placed vertically.
Wishing everyone a chag sameiach!